Pricing difference between EV+Gas (Harvester) vs. Full-EV model?

[Noplacelikeloam]

The Harvester definitely won't be more expensive than the full EV version. They will likely sell it for the same/very similar price to the base EV because of demand and make a better margin on those vehicles than the EV.

It seems likely there will be three battery sizes. One that gives around 350 miles of range, a less expensive (base model) full EV that gets around 250 miles of range, and the Harvester that gets around 150 miles of EV range. If that's the case, the 40% reduction in battery size between the base EV and the Harvester will more than pay for the cost of adding the gas engine system.

Would imagine the REEV would be base battery plus harvester. So 250 battery only. That would be the Goldilocks number for me.

 

[Rouse]

Would imagine the REEV would be base battery plus harvester. So 250 battery only. That would be the Goldilocks number for me.

I think its been reported from a few different people at the press launch, that the harvester will have about a 150 mile range battery.

Its possible, although I think unlikely, they would have as an option an extended range Harvester with the base EV battery plus the gas engine generator. Although, after doing that the gas tank might be so small that the total range isn't that much more than 500 anyway.

 

[Noplacelikeloam]

I think its been reported from a few different people at the press launch, that the harvester will have about a 150 mile range battery.

Its possible, although I think unlikely, they would have as an option an extended range Harvester with the base EV battery plus the gas engine generator. Although, after doing that the gas tank might be so small that the total range isn't that much more than 500 anyway.

I think youre right. I looked at this article that shows all the REEV vehicles and their ranges. Ramcharger and i3Rex are abnormally high % of electric only. But others are really low. Im glad we can change our reservation! I may be more BEV than I thought.

https://www.topspeed.com/electric-vehicles-range-extender-engines/

 

[hapymayer]

So the ramcharger I'm assuming is going to need oil changes, since they are putting in a full v6 under the front hood. I wonder what kind of maintenance the harvester will need for it's gas based engine and what kind of CO out put it's going to produce.

From what I understand from a few YouTubers who got to talk to engineers is that the harvester is going to be installed under the rear end, and will be super flat (speculation that it would be a boxer configuration) and likely 4 cylinder.

 

[krs71]

From what I understand from a few YouTubers who got to talk to engineers is that the harvester is going to be installed under the rear end, and will be super flat (speculation that it would be a boxer configuration) and likely 4 cylinder.

So will these type of setups require oil changes and maintenance like a combustion engine? I'm hoping VW QS batteries come into play before this car comes out so we can get over 500 just on solid state battery.

 

[dleepnw]

i highly doubt the model with the extender will be cheaper. they are saying you can go 350 miles on battery alone and another 150 with the extender. to go 350 miles on battery means its a large battery.

 

[Scout997]

they are saying you can go 350 miles on battery alone and another 150 with the extender. to go 350 miles on battery means its a large battery.

Based on the "One More Thing" part of the presentation, the battery capacity is smaller to make room for a gas tank. You'd target 100-150 miles "EV only", 350-400 gas generator. The sheer cost and weight of the batteries needed to make 350 EV miles, plus a gas tank and an ICE would make this thing heavier than the Hummer EV.

However, I do agree the Range Extender will be more expensive. Not necessarily because it will be more expensive to manufacture but it would be an easy way to increase profitability on the vehicle.

 

[justinjas]

From what I understand from a few YouTubers who got to talk to engineers is that the harvester is going to be installed under the rear end, and will be super flat (speculation that it would be a boxer configuration) and likely 4 cylinder.

This guy thinks it'll be a 3 cylinder based on the images from the presentation. He thinks it may take premium fuel to account for the smaller engine size, we'll see I guess.

Scout Motors’ EV Surprise: The Harvester Range Extender Explained!

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

The BMW i3 came with an optional range extender.

The range extender had a higher MSRP than the base vehicle. However, the batteries in the REx trims weren't smaller than their BEV counterparts.

2020 BMW i3 Pricing
2020 BMW i3 had a starting MSRP of $45,445 when new. The range-topping 2020 i3 s w/Range Extender Hatchback 4D was originally priced from $52,495.

		Original MSRP
	Hatchback 4D	$45,445
	s Hatchback 4D	$48,645
	Base w/Range Extender Hatchback 4D	$49,295
	s w/Range Extender Hatchback 4D	$52,495

 

[OlyScout]

Well now I’m second guessing my Harvester reservation. I assumed it’s a generator that only charges the battery and has no direct connection to the drivetrain. The Ram is an ICE vehicle with battery like a PHEV, but they’re calling it a range extender because its battery is larger than most PHEV? I have a Tesla and driving 100 miles takes about 150 miles of battery. With 35” tires I can’t see a 150 mile battery in the Scout Harvester being an amazing thing if you’re waiting for generator to charge so you have enough performance to tow or drive highway speeds. Also, having to charge and buy gas for a trip where their non-Harvester can go on battery alone (300 miles) is the opposite of extending range. Please let most be wrong and it’s the same battery with a small generator that takes away storage in the frunk with a 10 gallon tank.

 

[Mousehunter]

What I read was that the Harvester would come on after 150 miles - not that the vehicle would specifically have a 150 mile EV range. My bets is the generator will be no more than large enough to maintain highway speed - and it might be considerably less. It might be just large enough to get a targeted 500 mile range with the remaining charge in the battery and the the tank of gas for the generator. Remember, this will still be an EV. The Harvester is primarily to help extend that range a bit - but not necessarily fully power the vehicle. You will most likely still need juice left in the battery to accelerate, pass, and possibly even run the electrical system (abet I suspect there will be an aux battery to do that).

 

[astricklin]

Few thoughts.
1) most hybrids have limited range on battery. This is not technically a hybrid, but an EV with a range extender. It will still have a significant battery. Hard to guess what the price difference might end up being.
2) I have read that the generator will cut in after 150 miles (abet on another thread, there is a disable mode mentioned). That does not mean it only has 150 mile of EV range, it might mean that the generator will NOT provide 100% of the power needed to drive the vehicle and starting it at 150 miles of EV use will result in the maximum range (there will be at least some charge left in the batteries when the generator kicks in).
3) It is possible that the 150 mile EV range is intended to prevent battery over discharge - leaving enough battery to help with acceleration - but gas might be able to provide 100% of the power needed to maintain speed (and regenerative braking might be able to keep the battery at a fairly constant level).

There are a LOT of question on how the Harvester will actually function and what it will actually cost. Likewise, range numbers I am sure at this point are guesstimates - the batteries that will eventually be used are probably not set in stone yet. The EV industry has a less than stellar record of hitting initial range estimates - hopefully not too much unknown future tech was built into the range estimates, likewise hopefully not too much future reduction in battery costs was built into the estimated starting price.

One other person (think on this forum) told his experience being an early Bronco adopter. Better to undersell and over deliver than oversell and under deliver.

The f150 lightning and mach-e EPA numbers actually slightly beat what they had announced as 'estimated range'. I believe that the GM ultium vehicles, including the Silverado EV, blazer EV, and equinox EV all had at least one battery option that met or exceeded the initial announcement range estimates.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

What I read was that the Harvester would come on after 150 miles - not that the vehicle would specifically have a 150 mile EV range. My bets is the generator will be no more than large enough to maintain highway speed - and it might be considerably less. It might be just large enough to get a targeted 500 mile range with the remaining charge in the battery and the the tank of gas for the generator. Remember, this will still be an EV. The Harvester is primarily to help extend that range a bit - but not necessarily fully power the vehicle. You will most likely still need juice left in the battery to accelerate, pass, and possibly even run the electrical system (abet I suspect there will be an aux battery to do that).

I think this is most likely to be correct.

Note that nowhere in the Scout Motors press release was "150" mentioned. The press are taking the 300 miles BEV range, subtracting it from the 500 miles HREV range and making some assumptions. An EREV does not have a gasoline-powered drivetrain, it is specifically a generator that only charges the battery. If it powered the drivetrain, it would be PHEV.

A possible scenario (this is a total WAG):

Say the EREV's battery has a total range of 250 miles. When the battery is down to 60% (the vehicle has gone 100 miles and used 40% of its charge), the generator powers on and starts providing power to the battery. If the vehicle is on the move, this probably doesn't increase the battery state of charge, but rather decreases the net discharge rate. In this scenario, the original discharge rate was 40%/100 miles = 0.4%/mile. If the battery is now being charged at 0.25%/mile, and discharged at 0.4%/mile, the net discharge rate while the generator is on is 0.15%/mile. There's 60% battery remaining, so that gives the vehicle another 400 miles (60% / 0.15%/mile = 400 miles), and a total of 500 miles.

If (in my made-up scenario) the battery range is 250 miles and the assumed efficiency of the vehicle is similar to the R1S or Lightning (say, 2 miles/kWh), then that means the battery would have a capacity of 125 kWh and the generator will provide 31.25 kWh for 400 miles. Assuming 400 miles of driving at 60 mph average, that's about 6.67 hours, the generator will provide about 5 kW, which is a nice-sized generator--not too big and not terribly undersized.

 

[dleepnw]

Based on the "One More Thing" part of the presentation, the battery capacity is smaller to make room for a gas tank. You'd target 100-150 miles "EV only", 350-400 gas generator. The sheer cost and weight of the batteries needed to make 350 EV miles, plus a gas tank and an ICE would make this thing heavier than the Hummer EV.

However, I do agree the Range Extender will be more expensive. Not necessarily because it will be more expensive to manufacture but it would be an easy way to increase profitability on the vehicle.

hmmm, i guess i heard it more that at around 150 miles the generator would kick in not that that is the max range of the battery but maybe youre right. i would think the battery wouldn't want to get to zero before the generator kicks in.

i also i dont think you need that many batteries to reach 350 miles. the CT and Rivian do that with roughly 120-140kWh. Hummer and Silverado/GMC are wildly inefficient which is why they have 200kWh+

guess we need more details to know for sure

 

[Chuckles]

Has anyone seen anything detailing the price difference between the full EV and the harvest option on the Terra? I’m putting down my deposit right now and if the harvest option will bump it up something like $10k plus then I will just stick to full EV. Thanks!

Has anyone seen anything detailing the price difference between the full EV and the harvest option on the Terra? I’m putting down my deposit right now and if the harvest option will bump it up something like $10k plus then I will just stick to full EV. Thanks!

It's too early to say. It seems like the harvester take rate is high for the pre-orders. They may use that as an opportunity to raise prices to maximize profit. The information I've seen says the Ram range extender version is about $2,000 more than their pure EV. But the Pentastar V6 they use is fairly affordable. We have no idea what kind of engine they're going to put in the Scout and how pricey it is. The harvester will use a smaller battery which will lower cost. And the information from Jamie at Scout motors says the harvester will have a range of around 150 pure EV miles.