Dual fuel

[timmyhil]

Yeah, not enough power to drive the wheels directly in my opinion. and an engine with twice the HP would add even more weight and necessitate further battery pack reduction. Which is why I still believe it makes more sense to focus the range extender on recharging, and drive propulsion using ample kw from the battery. Personally, I think I'll pass on the Scout if they go the Ramcharger route

Okay then pass on it.

The Harvester was never supposed to drive its wheels, it was only there to recharge the battery. If you watched the Scout reveal.

 

[JungGravy]

I did watch it, and i'm agreeing with that.
Others have suggested that Scout should build it like the Ramcharger

 

[timmyhil]

I did watch it, and i'm agreeing with that.
Others have suggested that Scout should build it like the Ramcharger

Oh my bad I thought you were saying it should be built like the Ramcharger.

I’m sure that Scout probably looked into it and found that it was more expensive and complicate which would make the Scout sooo expensive.

 

[JBScout]

I have seen the discussions here that the smaller harvester battery will give estimate of 150 mile range and then the generator will get you 500 total (so 350 mile additional estimate). Either the original battery estimate is incorrect or the generator has to be very efficient to recharge the battery more than twice the original charge while driving. Will be interesting to see what information comes out from Scout in the next year.

I have heard something similar. But I've also heard that there will be enough room below the rear cargo area (with the spare being on the back) to house the Harvester and that the battery size and range would not be effected, hence the way they have presented it; 350 miles of EV range and an additional 150 miles with the harvester option.
I've also read that maybe there would be a way to adjust when you ask for the harvester to work, i.e. you have plenty of range to reach your destination but there is no charger there (camping) and you can select for the harvester to kick in after you've reached your destination. Or, you are on a long trip and would like the harvester to trickle charge while driving so you don't have to charge until you reach your destination where there are available chargers.

 

[timmyhil]

From what i’ve heard from prople who met Scott at the Event. He said that the battery size would be smaller but it would use the QuantumScape Solid State Batteries.

 

[Scooby24]

Solid state batteries?! I'M ALL IN!

 

[timmyhil]

If anyone wants more info go to my thread on it, its been recently updated with latest news.

https://www.scoutevforum.com/forum/threads/powerco-possible-battery-manufacturer-for-scout-ev.11307/

 

[RC616]

I have heard something similar. But I've also heard that there will be enough room below the rear cargo area (with the spare being on the back) to house the Harvester and that the battery size and range would not be effected, hence the way they have presented it; 350 miles of EV range and an additional 150 miles with the harvester option.
I've also read that maybe there would be a way to adjust when you ask for the harvester to work, i.e. you have plenty of range to reach your destination but there is no charger there (camping) and you can select for the harvester to kick in after you've reached your destination. Or, you are on a long trip and would like the harvester to trickle charge while driving so you don't have to charge until you reach your destination where there are available chargers.

For the Terra (what I reserved) where is the spare tire going to be stored? I assumed under the bed in back like most pickups. That may impact the battery size to accommodate the harvester and tire. The solid state batteries would be fantastic both from storage capacity and taking advantage of the increased charging capabilities. If we are taking bets on harvester layout, I am going with Solid state battery with pure electric range of 300 miles (15% smaller battery than pure electric model) harvester can be turned on or off but when on it would kick in at the 150 mile mark (50% charge) to charge battery and allow for additional 220 miles by offsetting the usage of second half of battery. Anyone else have a guess?

 

[Jrgunn5150]

For the Terra (what I reserved) where is the spare tire going to be stored? I assumed under the bed in back like most pickups. That may impact the battery size to accommodate the harvester and tire. The solid state batteries would be fantastic both from storage capacity and taking advantage of the increased charging capabilities. If we are taking bets on harvester layout, I am going with Solid state battery with pure electric range of 300 miles (15% smaller battery than pure electric model) harvester can be turned on or off but when on it would kick in at the 150 mile mark (50% charge) to charge battery and allow for additional 220 miles by offsetting the usage of second half of battery. Anyone else have a guess?

My guess is the chassis layout of both is the same, as is wheelbase.


Harvester will have a smaller battery to accommodate genset, and will be less "pure ev" range, as are current PHEV's.

I will also guess the Harvester isn't a diesel, a TDI, a wankel, a 6 stroke, or any other whacky technologies, and is merely a sub-50hp industrial engine tied to a genhead.

 

[timmyhil]

Heres some info to stop the speculation of range and how it will work. We can still speculate about the engine size.

“We announced 150 miles battery and total range of 500. It is still early at this stage and we will be dialing in these details over the next few years. No more specifics for now. Keep in mind, depending on the use case, the engine/generator may kick in sooner or later depending on a number of variables.” - Jamie from Scout Motors

 

[DaveGunter]

The website just says the harvester will be used to charge the battery. Doesn’t say anything about direct power to the electric motors. Suppose that could happen, but that would require a more complicated electronic set-up. The ram only charges the battery.

To have the generator feed the wheel motors adds complexity and requires different versions of the wiring and electronics. It will just be a generator that ties into the existing charging system. There will only be one system used across all models, with programming accommodations for the various battery capacities and the add-on charger. It's cheaper and easier to update the software at the end of the line than to have to keep track of multiple versions of the controller boxes.

Not sure how this can be done as you can not simultaneously charge and discharge a battery. Current can only flow one way in a battery.

 

[Scooby24]

Not sure how this can be done as you can not simultaneously charge and discharge a battery. Current can only flow one way in a battery.

You could argue electricity flows like water and your battery is like a big water tank. Water flows in and out. If you're using more water than the supply side on the other side of the tank, the tank drains. If the supply side has more water going into the tank than you're using, the tank fills up.

Your battery would be doing the same thing. If you had a generator producing 130kw and you're using 70kw, the generator is producing enough to both power the motors AND charge the battery at the same time.

If you are going up a hill and are using 150kw, the generator is now in a deficit and the battery discharges at 20kw.

This is just a BMS at work.

 

[No_Remorse]

Some info about the engine, but not much:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/scouts-range-extender-will-be-a-vw-engine-that-you-wont-even-notice

 

[OscarPhilips]

... it be cool if we could have it set up as a dual-fuel engine. I’m just thinking how convenient propane would be for a lot of people. As someone who lives in Florida, I am well acquainted with what happens when a storm rolls through and gas is tough to find. A couple propane tanks though you could store with out it turning to ethanol varnish and have an alternative. Any thoughts?

The original post was all about dual fuel (propane) and use as an emergency power source during utility outages. To address this, we need to consider how much propane would be needed. The Generac Guardian backup generators can be bought with a propane option, but when I was sizing my Guardian I ran into:

The Guardian 26kW Home Backup Generator running at 50% load will consume 2.06 gallons of propane per hour.​

​

A 20-pound gas grill propane tank holds just under 5 gallons of propane or about 2-1/2 hours of run time. I was not worried about the 2- to 4-hour outages, I was worried about the 6+ hour outages and decided that storing a half-dozen or more 20-pound propane tanks was not a desirable solution, especially given the goal of giving my wife peace of mind while I was out of the house and making my life more manageable (compared to a portable gas generator, extension cords, and need to fill the tank every 4 hours) when I was home.

So, I went with the 24-kW natural gas Guardian, with automatic start/stop and transfer providing complete, unattended, backup (about $12k installed). And yes, the natural gas supply is necessary, but if the zombie apocalypse happens, I think we will have bigger problems.

 

[SrfnFly227]

The original post was all about dual fuel (propane) and use as an emergency power source during utility outages. To address this, we need to consider how much propane would be needed. The Generac Guardian backup generators can be bought with a propane option, but when I was sizing my Guardian I ran into:

The Guardian 26kW Home Backup Generator running at 50% load will consume 2.06 gallons of propane per hour.​

​

A 20-pound gas grill propane tank holds just under 5 gallons of propane or about 2-1/2 hours of run time. I was not worried about the 2- to 4-hour outages, I was worried about the 6+ hour outages and decided that storing a half-dozen or more 20-pound propane tanks was not a desirable solution, especially given the goal of giving my wife peace of mind while I was out of the house and making my life more manageable (compared to a portable gas generator, extension cords, and need to fill the tank every 4 hours) when I was home.

So, I went with the 24-kW natural gas Guardian, with automatic start/stop and transfer providing complete, unattended, backup (about $12k installed). And yes, the natural gas supply is necessary, but if the zombie apocalypse happens, I think we will have bigger problems.

We don't have gas at our house and we have somewhat frequent power outages. Most are only a few hours, but if a hurricane or snow storm takes a tree or down on the main road, I'd expect multiple days without power. The previous owner of the house said the most they ever had was 9 days, but that was 30 years ago and I have to assume the response would be better than that now.

I would love to have a generator installed and I've considered the propane option, but we don't have a good spot to put the storage tank (aesthetically) that wouldn't require moving a bunch of other stuff.

I'm partially looking at the Harvester option as the back up power that my house needs. Hopefully I'd never have to rely on it for that function, but it would be nice to know it's there.