Question about EREV Extended Range EVs on Long Trips (Harvester Gas Engine)

[DriveAllNight]

It definitely can. The real world example is the BMW i3. With just a small 19kw generator, it can keep the battery at a charge target. The Ramcharger is going to have a 130kw generator. It's HIGHLY unlikely Scout will have that powerful of a generator...I'd guess something like 60-75kw. The engine would likely vary the RPMS and generator output to meet the average demands being asked of the battery.



Watch this:

And then this:

I don't think Scout will be trying to target the same behaviors as the BMW i3, which was more handicapped in the US where you couldn't set a charge target. I sincerely hope Scout does allow us to set a charge target where you're not using the range extender only as a last hope when the battery is nearly fully depleted as this is both bad for the battery and also would have to severely limit your output to keep you from depleting the last bit of charge you have.

That's very misleading - it seems the i3 can within a diminished power band. Not the same thing at all. I believe we are all talking about driving at normal speeds with normal horsepower and torque (or whatever the electric equivalent is ) nobody wants to drive in a limp mode.

 

[KarlT]

Just wondering hoe important others think this is. For me this could be the make or break feature of this vehicle. If you have a 600 mile trip, you need this vehicle to run on gas only for a while. Otherwise it’s stop at a slow charging station which defeats the purpose.

 

[Scooby24]

That's very misleading - it seems the i3 can within a diminished power band. Not the same thing at all. I believe we are all talking about driving at normal speeds with normal horsepower and torque (or whatever the electric equivalent is ) nobody wants to drive in a limp mode.

Well....you said "Drive down the road"....which means only the horsepower and torque necessary to keep it at a reasonable highway speed. But the BMW is doing that with a little 2 cylinder engine and generator that's producing...what..35 hp I think?

The Ramcharger with its generator is capable of producing 175ish HP. That's a whole lot more power available and I would think would be enough to account for the additional torque demands of hills and a brick of a vehicle.

The question is, is Scout targeting the generator size to be more inline with Ram or BMW? If it's a healthier sized generator there may not be as much as a hit and you might have more power available.....especially if you can set a target charge to maintain well above 7%.

But if you're hoping that the range extender would mean that when using it, you should be able to have full access to 1000 ft lbs of torque...don't think that's going to happen.

It's a compromise. I think the BEST we could hope for is that we get full power when using EV only and that by opting for the Harvester option, we aren't limited when using EV only.

But based on their wording, I suspect we might even be handicapped in EV only mode based on the size of the battery...time will tell.

 

[Noplacelikeloam]

Well....you said "Drive down the road"....which means only the horsepower and torque necessary to keep it at a reasonable highway speed. But the BMW is doing that with a little 2 cylinder engine and generator that's producing...what..35 hp I think?

The Ramcharger with its generator is capable of producing 175ish HP. That's a whole lot more power available and I would think would be enough to account for the additional torque demands of hills and a brick of a vehicle.

The question is, is Scout targeting the generator size to be more inline with Ram or BMW? If it's a healthier sized generator there may not be as much as a hit and you might have more power available.....especially if you can set a target charge to maintain well above 7%.

But if you're hoping that the range extender would mean that when using it, you should be able to have full access to 1000 ft lbs of torque...don't think that's going to happen.

It's a compromise. I think the BEST we could hope for is that we get full power when using EV only and that by opting for the Harvester option, we aren't limited when using EV only.

But based on their wording, I suspect we might even be handicapped in EV only mode based on the size of the battery...time will tell.

Interesting take, what wording are you referring to?

 

[Scooby24]

Interesting take, what wording are you referring to?

 

[Opus]

I don't know if my view is unique (don't think it is), but I want something that will replace my F150, be able to pull a trailer/camper on long trips without having to stop for extended periods to charge. But at the same time, I like the torque and acceleration of an electric truck, but have the same range anxiety of most potential EV truck owners, esp when towing.

If the range extender allows this - to run with all the benefits of an EV but unlimited range as long as I stop every 150 or so miles to fill up with gas, sign me up - that's a true game changer. If I can use it as a generator to power my camper when boondocking (like an f150 hybrid), bonus points.

You may say, just buy the F150 hybrid, but I still see that as basically an ICE vehicle with a built in generator, but it doesn't have the speed and torque or other advantages of an electric truck.

I may be unique in this, but me going to an electric Scout isn't about going green or saving on gas costs, it's that 0-60 in 3.5 seconds in something with the aerodynamics of a brick, that's pretty cool looking, and is an EV with actual knobs and buttons. Not paying for gas most weeks when I stay within the purely electric range is a bonus.

Maybe I'm dreaming but that's what I want.

 

[panzer948]

I don't know if my view is unique (don't think it is), but I want something that will replace my F150, be able to pull a trailer/camper on long trips without having to stop for extended periods to charge. But at the same time, I like the torque and acceleration of an electric truck, but have the same range anxiety of most potential EV truck owners, esp when towing.

If the range extender allows this - to run with all the benefits of an EV but unlimited range as long as I stop every 150 or so miles to fill up with gas, sign me up - that's a true game changer. If I can use it as a generator to power my camper when boondocking (like an f150 hybrid), bonus points.

You may say, just buy the F150 hybrid, but I still see that as basically an ICE vehicle with a built in generator, but it doesn't have the speed and torque or other advantages of an electric truck.

I may be unique in this, but me going to an electric Scout isn't about going green or saving on gas costs, it's that 0-60 in 3.5 seconds in something with the aerodynamics of a brick, that's pretty cool looking, and is an EV with actual knobs and buttons. Not paying for gas most weeks when I stay within the purely electric range is a bonus.

Maybe I'm dreaming but that's what I want.

Hi, we think alike so wanted to give you my thoughts and concerns. First of all, I have put a deposit down for the Traveler with Range Extender so am really keeping my fingers crossed (with cash) that this range extender is more like you described. However, I now have my doubts after reading a few posts and even comments on YouTube. First, I believe getting the range extender option is going to put a damper on our pure EV performance. Mainly because Scout indicates that option will mean a smaller battery pack, plus likely a hit on weight. Further proof is on their website or video with an asterisk by the EV Option indicating *For optimum EV performance… Anyway, all of this points to worse acceleration and EV range, the two things I care deeply about. How much worse will likely impact if I keep this extender option or not.

However, my biggest concern and what likely may be a deal breaker for many, is what the Range Extender will do for us. I am a former 1st Generation Chevy Volt owner (actually was on a waiting list for the first year model so am very use to this early adaptor hobby). Anyway, GM did a horrible job marketing the Volt as it was truly two cars in one due to its ability to 100% run on gas or electric charge. And believe it or not, this actually worked very well. Just like your hoping for the Scout, you could simply keep feeding it gas and drive across country and back just like a regular ICE car while zooming by those Superchargers. Then once you got home, charge at home for all those daily routine trips and forget how to pump gas. So, when the Scout was revealed with this “Range Extender” option, I immediately got excited this would be similar to our Volt! But now I am hearing that the engine will not be powerful enough to sustain this large battery at a level that could fully propel the vehicle, meaning that all this range extender will do, is simply extend how long you can use said battery before it gets to the point it needs to be recharged the typical EV way, which sounds like is around 500 miles. I guess the jury is still out, but it doesn’t sound like Scout has defined it to operate how the Volt did. I think this would be a big missed opportunity as it would pull in so many new potential EV owners that aren’t fully ready to wean off gas. In a sense, the Volt allowed me to do that too as I eventually replaced it with a full EV (Mach E) and now have enjoyed maintenance free driving in 36K miles of ownership with that 3.5 sec acceleration (I have the GT perf. version). So if the range extender will not give us the option to fully use gas while also taking a hit on EV performance, I will not hesitate to drop it for the full EV version. After owning both, I feel very comfortable going full EV but I also know having that Range Extender would likely help resale ability so checked it mostly for that reason. Time well tell right!

 

[ZachB_NW]

Just wondering hoe important others think this is. For me this could be the make or break feature of this vehicle. If you have a 600 mile trip, you need this vehicle to run on gas only for a while. Otherwise it’s stop at a slow charging station which defeats the purpose.

Very important to me, if it doesn't work the way you are thinking I likely will not buy

 

[theek]

Just wondering hoe important others think this is. For me this could be the make or break feature of this vehicle. If you have a 600 mile trip, you need this vehicle to run on gas only for a while. Otherwise it’s stop at a slow charging station which defeats the purpose.

I tow. Charging with a trailer sucks, as chargers aren't drive through. The range extender has to work as the main source of energy when towing.

On days I tow I'll just buy gas and go. If the Harvester range extender can't keep up I'll get a Ramcharger REV instead. It tows 14,000 pounds and with the Pentastar will keep up with my towing requirements, even if I have to sit and charge before going over a mountain pass.

 

[Callsign_DISCO]

For me, when operating on the Harvester option it MUST allow full electric performance, so same driveability, same tow capacity (with understandable/expected reduction in range when towing) - I will be towing a ~2,500 lb low profile trailer (looking at the Opus Lite shown below) and the Traveler will need to be able to do that whether pure EV or EREV.

If it can do 350-400 miles combined range towing something like that I am golden.

I have seen Rivian videos including towing the larger/heavier but still low profile pop-up Opus 4 or Aliner trailers and it looked like real world range impact was about 18-22% (including regen) where taller teardrop styles can be up to 40% range hit.

The wait for more/better info on Harvester is tough but I get that it seems to have been a recent reaction to customer input, which is a good sign to me (especially given the apparent take rate being around 80-ish percent), so I can hold on for a while it gets more fleshed out.

 

[Opus]

So lots of discussions, but most seem to talk like there is a one size fits all - i.e. it only works one way. I would like to see it have "modes" like my F150 and a lot of other vehicles these days. Something like this:

- "Eco mode": might reduce acceleration or use only some of the motors, have a speed limiter, may lower the air suspension (I think Rivian does this suspension trick, not sure if Scout even has it?), turn off the Harvester, etc to maximize pure EV range.

- "Normal mode": i.e. the 500 mile range, with Harvester kicking in at 20% charge or whatever.

- "Tow/Haul/Max Range mode": Harvester runs all the time charging the batteries and feeding electricity direct to the motors, to maximize range/mimimize battery drain, esp when towing or hauling. (Maybe even detects a connected trailer and turns this on by default when towing)

- "Charge mode": (just throwing this in the mix) - where it can sit still and run the harvester to charge batteries while not driving, say while I stop to eat lunch but no charging stations around. (Ppl have expressed concerns about this running in a closed garage, but having something like a carbon monoxide detector, prompt the user to not run this in an enclosed space, or sensors to detect if it's surrounded by walls/roof, etc to disable this - I'm fine with having to park out and away from things to run this mode. Note: stupid ppl will be stupid - there's nothing that prevents turning on an ICE engine in a closed garage, so it doesn't really create a "new" risk, unless it turns this on automatically when it needs juice, so it would almost have to be a person manually turning this on)

I feel like this would give the best of all worlds - 99% of the time as a daily driver, it's pure EV, but on those long trips or when towing, it makes the most use of the gas engine to extend that range.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

So, like everyone else, I don't know how the Harvester works for sure.

I can speculate, I'm an engineer, in the automotive field no less.

The Ramcharger can keep up with the EV demand infinitely, as long as it has fuel in the tank. Or you can plug it in like a PHEV.

This is more efficient than simply using the engine to run the truck, which is why locomotives are powered similarly.

Even the memes about gas generators and Tesla's are silly, because the 9.00 in fuel a gas generator takes to charge a Tesla, is less than filling the tank of a Malibu or Camry.

I believe the Harvester, is just an extender, not a multiplier. I think it will kick on at 25% DOC, and run until it's out of gas, and by then you'll want to be at Buccees.

 

[KarlT]

So, like everyone else, I don't know how the Harvester works for sure.

I can speculate, I'm an engineer, in the automotive field no less.

The Ramcharger can keep up with the EV demand infinitely, as long as it has fuel in the tank. Or you can plug it in like a PHEV.

This is more efficient than simply using the engine to run the truck, which is why locomotives are powered similarly.

Even the memes about gas generators and Tesla's are silly, because the 9.00 in fuel a gas generator takes to charge a Tesla, is less than filling the tank of a Malibu or Camry.

I believe the Harvester, is just an extender, not a multiplier. I think it will kick on at 25% DOC, and run until it's out of gas, and by then you'll want to be at Buccees.

Ramcharger setup seems perfect, I doubt Harvester generator will be that size.

 

[Callsign_DISCO]

If we consider the apparent take rate for Harvester self-reported at around 80%, regardless of how it is technically implemented one thing I think it is safe to say is that it has enabled a strong buy response from a larger group of customers than the pure EV, which will be critical for Scout long term - this would seem to be borne out not only by the apparent take rate but also by Scout Motor's statement that initial response has exceeded their expectation.

Harvester, IMO, may represent the single greatest example of listening to customer sentiment by any company in recent memory - for myself, I personally ONLY placed a reservation because of the Harvester option.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Ramcharger setup seems perfect, I doubt Harvester generator will be that size.

I suppose it's perfect if you are on the road all day every day.

I daily drive a truck I've personally put 342,000 miles on, and I'm not on the road all day every day.

Maybe once a year I tow across several states. 99% of the time I'm just going to work, a supplier, a customer. 250 miles of range is more than enough for me personally.

But the same people who go, wow, how do you drive all those miles, will in turn demand 1000 miles range towing max rating up a mountain lol. Then part next to me in the lot with their receiver that's never had a hitch in it lol.

Harvester makes people like that feel more secure, and makes it so someone can bring you five gallons of gas and you self recover.