Since we're probably not getting Android Auto / Carplay...How about an analog line in?

[timmyhil]

There are some weeks where I drive 3 or 4 rental cars on top of my car and my wife's. Having the same UI for my maps + music apps and the same digital assistant for all of my dictation and text-to-voice functions is invaluable. If I had to spend time getting up to speed on every different cars UI when I switched I would lose my mind.

And all these UIs are all optimized for the phones they run with. A lot better than the stock UI’s that cars Bluetooth give off.

 

[BullOak]

Link? Google is failing me.

It has already been confirmed by Scout that they will support AA/ACP.

 

[Ajzride]

I might be able to find a better “silver bullet” when I get back to my laptop, but this post here from a Scout engineer is one of many on the official Scout forum talking about it. It was explicitly asked about at the preview and answered that AA/ACP would be available.

https://scoutmotors.community.forum...en-interaction-and-ideas.131/page-2#post-1973

 

[Chuckles]

Rivian has said that they think fully controlling the user experience is better. The reasons they give as why are mostly nonsense (there was a recent interview where they claimed AA/CP take over the whole screen, which is not at all true for either current or future AA/CP iterations).

The fairly obvious real reason is that implementing AA/CP would make it harder to paywall basic features like voice texting control and media (spotify/apple music/youtube) behind a monthly subscription "connectivity" package.

Rivian charges $14.99/month or $149.99/year for their Connect+ service.
https://rivian.com/support/article/what-is-connect

 

[NukeDukem]

Today's VW/Rivian/Scout announcement seems to indicate that the software/infotainment will be tightly tied to Rivian's, and they'll probably follow Rivian's hubris into the void by not offering Android Auto and Carplay. I wish they'd address this directly, but at this point I'm not holding out much hope.

So....Can we at least solve the bluetooth problem for third party AA/CP screens and hide an analog line in somewhere? Or at least run the amp input somewhere easy to access?

Not having Car Play will likely be a deal breaker for me.

 

[Scout997]

Rivian has said that they think fully controlling the user experience is better. The reasons they give as why are mostly nonsense (there was a recent interview where they claimed AA/CP take over the whole screen, which is not at all true for either current or future AA/CP iterations).

The fairly obvious real reason is that implementing AA/CP would make it harder to paywall basic features like voice texting control and media (spotify/apple music/youtube) behind a monthly subscription "connectivity" package.

It's not about the experience or paywalling features, although the latter is a nice little bonus; it's about user data. You should see how much my Rivian sends back to HQ at night. Rivian doesn't want to share that with anyone. The question is, are they free to add to the telematics in this VW agreement? Will it be a GM Honda situation with the Prologue where Honda supports Carplay so that vehicle has it even though GM doesn't support CP.

 

[BullOak]

It's not about the experience or paywalling features, although the latter is a nice little bonus; it's about user data. You should see how much my Rivian sends back to HQ at night. Rivian doesn't want to share that with anyone. The question is, are they free to add to the telematics in this VW agreement? Will it be a GM Honda situation with the Prologue where Honda supports Carplay so that vehicle has it even though GM doesn't support CP.

I think the "valuable data" argument has been thoroughly debunked at this point. Basically, Rivian would be able to get vehicle diagnostics/systems data regardless of someone using AA/CP. Apple and google will get location tracking (and everything else the collect) just by you having your phone in your pocket - they don't need to buy it from rivian.

The only data rivian gets by avoiding AA/CP is media usage and nav destination tracking, but rivian doesn't have enough users to have enough of that to be valuable. Anyone who wants that will just buy it from Apple/google. If rivian wants destination tracking for driver assist/maps learning, they need a bigger dataset than their users anyway.

It's very clearly about after-sale subscription revenue, which is listed in every single one of their financial reports in their future profitability modeling - They're straight up counting on $10-15k per vehicle. Thing is, I think it's a lot harder to sell an extra $30-50 a month to someone buying a $55k R2 than someone buying a $100k R1.

 

[BullOak]

I might be able to find a better “silver bullet” when I get back to my laptop, but this post here from a Scout engineer is one of many on the official Scout forum talking about it. It was explicitly asked about at the preview and answered that AA/ACP would be available.

https://scoutmotors.community.forum...en-interaction-and-ideas.131/page-2#post-1973

That reads more like a careful non-answer than any kind of confirmation. He mentions people using AA/CP, but not in the context of a scout, and 95% of the response is talking about the necessity of designing the vehicle's systems separate from AA/CP. It's also from before the Rivian/VW joint venture was announced.

 

[BullOak]

really dont understand this infatuation with AA and CP. probably because the vehicle you have now has a crappy infotainment system. Rivian and Tesla do not and its fine without it. its not perfect but it does 90-95% of what you need and their support for apps will grow over time without needing AA/CP.

and from a business/revenue pov, Rivian and Tesla have no need to add it, it only creates a negative for them.

and why would you need an analog line? im sure they will have BT connection if you want to stream music.

It's the kind of thing where once you get used to using it, going back is like going to the stone age. I use voice control to multitask media/maps/calls and texting all the time, and the rivian was about 5% as functional at that as my wife's old $20k CRV running android auto. It was disgusting how awful it was. And that's before you get into the maps/nav errors.

Rivian's been 5 years away from catching up for 5 years. Tiny improvements don't mask the roaring gulf between them in terms of usability. If my friend/acquaintance group is any indication, Rivian's hubris has cost them a lot of sales.

Bluetooth has issues with quality and connectivity, particularly in areas with a lot of wireless congestion. Line in is just simpler and better.

 

[NukeDukem]

It's the kind of thing where once you get used to using it, going back is like going to the stone age. I use voice control to multitask media/maps/calls and texting all the time, and the rivian was about 5% as functional at that as my wife's old $20k CRV running android auto. It was disgusting how awful it was. And that's before you get into the maps/nav errors.

Rivian's been 5 years away from catching up for 5 years. Tiny improvements don't mask the roaring gulf between them in terms of usability. If my friend/acquaintance group is any indication, Rivian's hubris has cost them a lot of sales.

Bluetooth has issues with quality and connectivity, particularly in areas with a lot of wireless congestion. Line in is just simpler and better.

Really? I’ve never had a single Bluetooth glitch in the 15 or so years I’ve been using it in a car. GPS is much more prone to issues, especially in big cities like NYC.

 

[2wheeltraveler]

We will drop our reservation if they don’t include car playe’ve used it across dozens of cars, it keeps getting better and already has the best maps (and options) than any built in solution. We’ve also started using SharePlay a lot which I’ve never seen on a car system.

it’s not about infatuation, it’s about giving users choice. Not offering something simple and free, sends the message that the company cares more about locking you into their ecosystem, than letting your actual choice prove if their system is better or not.

Also, have you heard anyone say they won’t buy a car because it HAS AA/Carplay? There is only one clear answer here…

 

[ubertam]

We will drop our reservation if they don’t include car playe’ve used it across dozens of cars, it keeps getting better and already has the best maps (and options) than any built in solution. We’ve also started using SharePlay a lot which I’ve never seen on a car system.

it’s not about infatuation, it’s about giving users choice. Not offering something simple and free, sends the message that the company cares more about locking you into their ecosystem, than letting your actual choice prove if their system is better or not.

Also, have you heard anyone say they won’t buy a car because it HAS AA/Carplay? There is only one clear answer here…

Me too. Once the AA/CP decision is official, it will be a deal breaker. If no CarPlay, I’m out.

And while I’d like the new/future CarPlay, it would be ok if it was just the media screen takeover that was supported. CarPlay 2 is not a deal breaker. But simple, wireless CarPlay is.

 

[timmyhil]

They are putting Apple CarPlay in. I was messaging with Jamie from Scout last night.

 

[Scout997]

I think the "valuable data" argument has been thoroughly debunked at this point. Basically, Rivian would be able to get vehicle diagnostics/systems data regardless of someone using AA/CP. Apple and google will get location tracking (and everything else the collect) just by you having your phone in your pocket - they don't need to buy it from rivian.

The only data rivian gets by avoiding AA/CP is media usage and nav destination tracking, but rivian doesn't have enough users to have enough of that to be valuable. Anyone who wants that will just buy it from Apple/google. If rivian wants destination tracking for driver assist/maps learning, they need a bigger dataset than their users anyway.

It's very clearly about after-sale subscription revenue, which is listed in every single one of their financial reports in their future profitability modeling - They're straight up counting on $10-15k per vehicle. Thing is, I think it's a lot harder to sell an extra $30-50 a month to someone buying a $55k R2 than someone buying a $100k R1.

Not sure it's been debunked but even if that's the case Lucid offers CP and I'm sure they will offer a subscription mode, if they haven't already. Having CP doesn't automatically make a paid sub model impossible. Unfortunately, this is all moot, Scout won't be able to make enough vehicles to satisfy the demand for years. CP may not factor into their decisions until they need to start trying to sell vehicles or stay ahead of future competition.

 

[VolInGa]

Not sure it's been debunked but even if that's the case Lucid offers CP and I'm sure they will offer a subscription mode, if they haven't already. Having CP doesn't automatically make a paid sub model impossible. Unfortunately, this is all moot, Scout won't be able to make enough vehicles to satisfy the demand for years. CP may not factor into their decisions until they need to start trying to sell vehicles or stay ahead of future competition.

I would bet you my paycheck they will both be there. As many things as VW got wrong with their ID UI, they do have AA/CP and won’t risk screwing that up. I’d also bet the next Rivian models will as well.