Are you still a Scout buyer without $7500 EV tax credit?

[Roger 123]

Tax credits need to go away, why should tax payers subsidize someones decision on what sort of car to buy?

If the Scout is at a price I feel is fair then I will buy it, if not, I won't. Take the government finger off the scale and we'll see what happens.

 

[Dead Ken]

I never considered the tax credit. I had a 69 Scout 800 that I loved and I'm looking foreword to owning one again. There being no gas option was actually disappointing to me. That said I'm still excited about it.

 

[OscarPhilips]

At least Scout has VW's manufacturing expertise to help it achieve lowest production costs possible when setting up the production plant and process. But all car manufacturers will be subject to cost of higher goods and materials, which even the most vertically integrated manufacturing process can't avoid affecting the bottom line.

I sat through dozens of EV design web casts and "knowing how to make an ICE car" does not equate to "knowing how to make an EV car." There were a lot of design choices ... like:

• We have a lot of excess engine power and can free more up by dropping the AC compressor, we don't care what size the compressor and efficiency is, and who cares if it consumes 3 kW when running?
• We have done a great job of acoustically insulating our cab, what do you mean by we need to think more about thermal insulation?
• Yes, we have regenerative braking, we regeneratively-generate 90 kW, but the battery can only absorb 30 kW, that is all the harder a driver breaks ... isn't it?

Regardless of the extensive knowledge of ICE car engineering VW has, the need to drop many preconceived notions and humble themselves to design an effective EV.

 

[Sparkland]

My guess is that the federal tax credits will go away completely and the state tax credits will be reduced. The credits for the state of Colorado are already set to be reduced at the beginning of 2025.

Anyone on the fence about purchasing/leasing an EV ought to push their purchase forward to be sure it falls in 2024.

We have leased 3 EV's this year and I doubt we will ever own another one after the 2-yr leases are up unless we take the buyout on the EV6 since the residual value is only $30K.

It will be difficult to sell EV's without tax credits. It will be extremely difficult for Rivian/Scout/etc.

 

[timmyhil]

My guess is that the federal tax credits will go away completely and the state tax credits will be reduced. The credits for the state of Colorado are already set to be reduced at the beginning of 2025.

Anyone on the fence about purchasing/leasing an EV ought to push their purchase forward to be sure it falls in 2024.

We have leased 3 EV's this year and I doubt we will ever own another one after the 2-yr leases are up unless we take the buyout on the EV6 since the residual value is only $30K.

It will be difficult to sell EV's without tax credits. It will be extremely difficult for Rivian/Scout/etc.

It wont be hard to sell them. Right now since the federal tax credit gives the manufacturers a $7,500 price to add on to the MSRP. Its all a scam without the tax credit EV’s “will be way cheaper than ever before”.

 

[KarlT]

My guess is that the federal tax credits will go away completely and the state tax credits will be reduced. The credits for the state of Colorado are already set to be reduced at the beginning of 2025.

Anyone on the fence about purchasing/leasing an EV ought to push their purchase forward to be sure it falls in 2024.

We have leased 3 EV's this year and I doubt we will ever own another one after the 2-yr leases are up unless we take the buyout on the EV6 since the residual value is only $30K.

It will be difficult to sell EV's without tax credits. It will be extremely difficult for Rivian/Scout/etc.

My wife’s Genesis GV60 also has a residual of $30k at the end of a 3 yr lease. I’m guessing it will be worth less than that.

 

[KarlT]

Tariffs will drive up ALL prices regardless if the part in question has it applied or not.

The tariffs are meant as a threat to other countries, so that they will lower their tariffs. Hopefully this will all get worked out before the Scout is being sold.

 

[rivianwho]

No surprise the new administration is going to try to kill this. Also no surprise is Elmo supporting it. He knows this will hurt other manufacturers way more than Tesla, especially those like Lucid, Rivian, and Scout and to a lesser degree legacy automakers.

At least Scout is a couple of years away from production but if the tax credit is gone then, it will definitely impact some customers from buying a Scout.

Tariffs are likely coming which we know will impact costs of good/parts. Somehow I have a hunch this won't impact Tesla much either. If you think it will be implemented evenly and fairly across all auto manufacturers you are living in a fantasy world, its going to hurt other companies way more (unless somehow they figure out how to get on DT's side).

Not trying to be political here. I hate politics, on both sides of the aisle. Just trying to read the tea leaves and share my glass-half-empty opinion on where things might head with the new administration. Sad to see the EV momentum of the past 10-12 years potentially get lost.

Are you sure you even qualify for the tax credit since they added the income class warfare threshold?

I pre-ordered my Rivian R1S w/o regard to the tax credit which I did end up getting the full $7,500 since Rivian found a loophole whereby they offered to convert $100 of the pre-order $1,000 refundable deposit into a $100 non-refundable sales agreement if signed before the Bidenflation Increase Act (aka Inflation Reduction Act) was signed on 8/15/2022; so, I signed it in 7/22, took the $7,500 deduction on my 2022 tax return and didn't take delivery until 6/23.

Now, I don't qualify due to income thresholds, so WHEN they terminate the tax deduction, it won't matter to my Scout preorder.

 

[rivianwho]

Tax credits need to go away, why should tax payers subsidize someones decision on what sort of car to buy?

If the Scout is at a price I feel is fair then I will buy it, if not, I won't. Take the government finger off the scale and we'll see what happens.

Respectfully, I take issue with everyone I hear that calls the EV tax deductions *subsidies. AFAIC, the $7,500 tax DEDUCTION is NOT a subsidy but YOUR choice to keep $7,500 of YOUR HARD-EARNED $$$; i.e. It's YOUR $$$ and NOT a government handout unlike many other *real* subsidies and entitlement programs (i.e. unearned handouts).

That said, oil companies have been getting *subsidies* for decades for research & development while making obscene profits.

 

[Sparkland]

Respectfully, I take issue with everyone I hear that calls the EV tax deductions *subsidies. AFAIC, the $7,500 tax DEDUCTION is NOT a subsidy but YOUR choice to keep $7,500 of YOUR HARD-EARNED $$$; i.e. It's YOUR $$$ and NOT a government handout unlike many other *real* subsidies and entitlement programs (i.e. unearned handouts).

That said, oil companies have been getting *subsidies* for decades for research & development while making obscene profits.

Since you don’t need a tax liability equal to or greater than the federal tax credits, I am inclined to think of the credits as a government subsidy.

 

[rivianwho]

Since you don’t need a tax liability equal to or greater than the federal tax credits, I am inclined to think of them as credits as a government subsidy.

"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's""...but not a penny more of MY HARD-EARNED $$$. ;-)

AFAIC, We don't NEED any income tax liability. Let's not forget that mostly tariffs paid for our Federal govt for the 1st 130+ years before the powers that be decided to fund WWI and pass an income tax. ;-)

 

[Mousehunter]

The tax credits were originally targeted to influence public opinion by allowing people who otherwise could not have afforded them to purchase them. I think initially the majority of EV buyers were wealthy and they were mostly virtue symbols. Now that the price of many EV's are mainstream - there is less need of a credit.

I wish I could say that goverment encouraging a better charger network would be a good thing - but so far that is not close to the truth. The charging networks need to be profitable, not just a method of wealth redistribution. I have read very few good things about the government encouraged charging networks. Ultimately, charging networks need to be profitable to be maintained.

 

[rivianwho]

The tax credits were originally targeted to influence public opinion by allowing people who otherwise could not have afforded them to purchase them. I think initially the majority of EV buyers were wealthy and they were mostly virtue symbols. Now that the price of many EV's are mainstream - there is less need of a credit.

I wish I could say that goverment encouraging a better charger network would be a good thing - but so far that is not close to the truth. The charging networks need to be profitable, not just a method of wealth redistribution. I have read very few good things about the government encouraged charging networks. Ultimately, charging networks need to be profitable to be maintained.

As always, less == more when it comes to govt involvement in the free market.

Charging network profitability is not a problem for Tesla who has led THE WORLD in EV and charging network adoption ...

https://electrek.co/2024/10/24/tesl...ing-from-things-elon-musk-said-he-wouldnt-do/

 

[Roger 123]

Respectfully, I take issue with everyone I hear that calls the EV tax deductions *subsidies. AFAIC, the $7,500 tax DEDUCTION is NOT a subsidy but YOUR choice to keep $7,500 of YOUR HARD-EARNED $$$; i.e. It's YOUR $$$ and NOT a government handout unlike many other *real* subsidies and entitlement programs (i.e. unearned handouts).

That said, oil companies have been getting *subsidies* for decades for research & development while making obscene profits.

I don't own an EV, I'm not a tax attorney, and I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn last night but my understanding is that it's a tax credit, not a tax deduction.

If your tax bill was going to be $17,500, you take $7,500 off the amount owed. The .gov doesn't reduce its spending by $7,500 so that money has to come from somewhere and I believe that somewhere will be a taxpayer. That's why I feel taxpayers are subsidizing EV adoption.

But I could be completely wrong in my assumptions.

And yes, the .gov subsidizes many things but we're speaking specifically about EVs here.

 

[rivianwho]

I don't own an EV, I'm not a tax attorney, and I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn last night but my understanding is that it's a tax credit, not a tax deduction.

If your tax bill was going to be $17,500, you take $7,500 off the amount owed. The .gov doesn't reduce its spending by $7,500 so that money has to come from somewhere and I believe that somewhere will be a taxpayer. That's why I feel taxpayers are subsidizing EV adoption.

But I could be completely wrong in my assumptions.

And yes, the .gov subsidizes many things but we're speaking specifically about EVs here.

Credit vs deduction is just semantics. Yes, it's a *credit* but I took issue w/ labeling it a *subsidy*.

Regardless, you point out the REAL problem is that the govt does NOT reduce spending and spends more than it takes in REGARDLESS of who pays what.

$36T+ national debt
$1.8T+ 2024 budget deficit
$106B+ to Ukraine
$2B+ in EV tax credits since 1/1/2024

Enough said.

Like Elon said, eliminate ALL subsidies incl. the ones for oil & gas that have been paid for decades!

Level the playing field and let the market decide based upon consumer demand.